Jeff: Monday Musings

* With QB Joey Harrington getting dealt to the Miami Dolphins Friday, Fins fans are about to get a taste of Pouty Daunte. He's a great player when everybody loves him and supports him, but when somebody dare challenge Daunte or tell him he might actually have prove himself a little and compete for a starting job, well he reacts like you're suggesting Tom Brady or Peyton Manning should compete for theirs! As much as I wanted to see Daunte stay one more year in Minnesota, I will not be sad to miss out on all the "nobody respects me" comments he'll be making all year.

* As of today, the Twins are 7.5 games behind the Chicago White Sox for first in the Central division, and 7 back of Detroit for the wildcard. It's certainly not time to fold up the tent, and yet there haven't been many signs of hope that either a) the White Sox will come back to the pack or b) the Twins bats will finally come to life and start scoring runs. Torii Hunter, he of the Gold Glove defense and .267 lifetime hitter who's never hit 30 HR's in a season, has a $12 million option for next year. He's a fan favorite and is exciting to watch, but for a team with a cheapskate owner, or really any team not residing in the Big Apple, Boston or LA, the Twins simply can't afford to bring Hunter back at that salary. The problem here is that as overpaid as Hunter is, he's been the best guy in the cleanup spot for them this season (which is a little like having 5 guys play darts and the only guy that can consistently hit the board be considered the "best"), and this is where Ol' Carl Pohlad takes the blame. Pohlad has proven every year that he's not going to pay for a bat at the deadline that the Twins have so desparately needed every year (and for the moment we're going to forget that GM Terry Ryan is usually hesitant to give up prospects to get a hitter anyways), so trading Hunter this year if the team is still competitive becomes almost impossible. If the Twins are still 6 or 7 games back in the wild card race by the All-star break, you can't trade Hunter for some prospects because there's nobody in the lineup to replace him. Yet that means he'll walk at season's end for nothing. With how well Santana has pitched his last few outings, and how poor Silva and Lohse continue to throw (great news for Twins fans because it forces Gardenhire to finally use his 2nd best pitcher- Francisco Liriano- as a starter), the Twins aren't out of it yet. But if they're still in limbo by the all-star break- a ways out of the hunt but not completely out- then they're going to have a tough time admitting defeat and doing what NEEDS to be done by trading away Hunter for some prospects that can help them down the road.

* I'm glad to see the Edmonton Oilers bounce back in their playoff series agaist San Jose, winning a 3rd straight game last night to take a 3-2 series lead. Apparently, the Sharks crowd booed the Canadian National Anthem, which is funny because when Canadians booed the American anthem at games before the lockout, Americans were threatening nuclear bombing of Canada for their actions. When Sharks fans do exactly the same thing to us, you don't hear a peep about it down here. As a native of Edmonton and a life-long Oiler fan who watched the game last night (I didn't), I'll let my buddy Joel explain it...

last night the sharks fans booed the canadian anthem... i thought we
outgrew this two years ago? WTF?

it came out of nowhere. the way i see it, the fans in edmonchuck (as
you know) are SO loud and overwhelming, that the fans in san jose
wanted to match it... but when it came down to it, they couldn't do it
the old fashioned way, they had to resort to booing a freaking anthem.

give me a break, you sad, pathetic fans. where were you when your
team needed you in the third period when the oilers were absolutely
ROLLING over your sharks?

Yet another shining example of why don't need hockey in warm-weather States. Thanks again Gary Bettman.

* Like most everyone else, I love lists and rankings. When you combine that with the NBA, like ESPN.com ranking the 10 greatest point guards of all-time, well then it's double the fun for me! I'm not going to break down their list, but I had to comment on this...

STEVE NASH VS. JASON KIDD
ESPN.com's panel ranked Kidd as 7th best ever, and Nash 9th. In examining their careers, there is no other rational argument than saying you would take Kidd over Nash. Their passing and court vision are both excellent, and both lead some of the prettiest fast breaks you'll ever see. Now, Nash lovers will tell you that "well Stevie is so much better at shooting than Kidd!" True, but Kidd is also an infinitely better defender than Nash. As a matter of fact, Kidd is a much better shooter than Nash is a defender. And also don't forget Kidd's a much better rebounder than Nash too. I just don't see an argument here at all, and agree with the panel.

* What I don't agree with, however, is ranking both Kidd AND Nash ahead of Gary Payton (GP finished 10th). Keep in mind, I grew up a Sonics fan and Payton's my 2nd favorite player of all-time (1.Shawn Kemp 2.GP 3.Kevin Garnett 4.Chris Webber), so I'm biased. But I believe had Payton played in New York, LA, Chicago, or Boston he'd be mentioned as a top-5 all-time point guard, not barely cracking the Top 10. You know what? Let me delve into this and prove it to you...

Comparing career stats for these three is difficult. Whereas Payton and Kidd have been consistently good for a long time, Nash had such a slow start, and as you'll see, that's really the biggest point in all of this. Nash didn't start more than half of his teams' games until his 5th season, which means he's only been playing at a high level for 6 years. Payton's career averages have dropped because he continues to hang on at age 37, but he had 10 seasons of averaging at least 19 points and 7 assists, garnering 9 all-star selections in that time. Kidd has been consistent from the get-go, and although he hasn't been quite the same since microfracture surgery last season, that's still at least 10 all-star-type years on his resume.

SCORING:
Kidd: 14.6 PPG (FG%: 40.2, 3pt%: 33.2, FT%: 77.9)
Nash: 13.5 PPG (FG%: 47.7, 3pt%: 42.1, FT%: 89.6)
Payton 16.9 PPG (FG%: 46.7, 3pt%: 31.9, FT%: 73)
Nash is certainly the best shooter of the group, and I was suprised to see that Kidd has better percentages from 3 and from the charity stripe than Payton, however GP's only taken 95 more 3's in his career, but has taken 1221 more free throws. When you look at their career totals, it shows that Payton is clearly a better scorer than Nash. In his 6 years as a fulltime starter, only three times (not including his MVP year last year, where he averaged 15.5) did Nash average more than 16 a game, whereas Payton has averaged 16+ in a season 10 TIMES and JKidd has done it 4 times. Not only that but GP scored more than Nash's career high of 18.8 of this season 9 TIMES IN HIS CAREER!! Payton and Kidd both are more effective at driving the lane than Stevie (with Payton basically inventing the 13 foot floater shot that so many small guys use now), and Payton's one of the best low-post scoring point guards ever.
ADVANTAGE: PAYTON

PASSING:
Kidd: 9.2 APG, 3.5 TOPG, 2.8 Asst/TO
Nash: 7.1 APG, 2.4 TOPG, 2.54 Asst/TO
Payton 6.9 APG, 2.3 TOPG, 3 Asst/TO
Another category where Nash's last two seasons have skewed people's perception of how his career compares to the other 2. Nash fans will quickly want to point out that career averages are a misleading stat for him because of his lower totals his first 5 years. However, in Nash's 4 seasons as a starter in Dallas, only one year- his last in 03-04- did he average more than 7.7 assists, and that was 8.8 a game. His two MVP seasons in Phoenix have shown a big jump in assists, but it's ONLY TWO SEASONS. I'd give the clear edge to Kidd in this category because in his 13 NBA seasons, he's averaged MORE THAN 8.8 a game 10 times, and in the three seasons he didn't his averages were 7.7 (his rookie year), and in his last two it was 8.3 and 8.4. No doubt Payton's 3rd in this category but his numbers for a point guard are still well above the norm.
ADVANTAGE: KIDD

REBOUNDING:
Kidd: 6.5 RPG
Nash: 2.8 RPG
Payton 4.5 RPG
Here's where Kidd is underappreciated. There's plenty of forwards and centers in the league today who can't average 6.5 rebounds a game in one season, let alone over a 13 year career (I'm talking to you, Eddy Curry)! This is part of the reason why Kidd is one of the best ever leading the fast break, because many times he STARTS the fast break! Payton's still a good rebounder for the position, and Nash is about where you expect him to be.
ADVANTAGE: KIDD

DEFENSE:
Kidd: 2.2 Stl, .3 blk
Nash: .8 Stl, .1 blk
Payton 2.1 Stl, .2 blk
NBA All-defense: Payton 8 (all were 1st team selections), Kidd 8 (1st-5 times, 2nd-3 times), Nash 0
This is where The Glove really shines, and where Nash really drops. Kidd has been a solid defender his entire career as his 7 All-Defensive selections show, and Nash has a better chance of dunking in a game (which he never has) than being called a good defender. GP? One of the best defensive players ever, at any position. I never saw Walt "Clyde" Frazier of the New York Knicks play back in the '70's, but people who have forgotten more about basketball than I'll never know claim he's the best ever. Fine, if that's true than I'm all the more impressed with Frazier because Payton, as his 8 FIRST TEAM ALL-NBA DEFENSE selections, along with winning the Defensive Player of the Year in '95-'96, show he was one helluva defender.
ADVANTAGE: PAYTON

AWARDS:
Titles: Payton, Kidd, Nash- 0
Finals: Kidd 2, Payton 1, Nash 0
MVP: Nash 2, Kidd & Payton 0
All-Star: Payton 9, Kidd 7, Nash 4
All-NBA 1st Team: Kidd 5, Payton 2, Nash 1
All-NBA 2nd Team: Payton 4, Kidd 1, Nash 0,

You can't "throw out" Nash's 2 MVP awards, as he's been one of the best players in the league the past 2 seasons. However, those 2 seasons don't blow away the best 2 for Payton or Kidd, and that's before we even look at Nash's inability to play defense. Nash's last two years have been great, but none of his 4 seasons in Dallas as a starter compare to Payton and Kidd's averages in their 10 best years, let alone 4. Both guys have been consistently great for 10 years each, and when looking at who's had the best careers, MVP's or not Nash just doesn't compare. As for Payton and Kidd, although Kidd's a better passer and rebounder, I would take Payton's scoring and defense, along with solid numbers for a PG passing and grabbing boards, over JKidd.

But that's just me.